When Gary Steel interviewed Graham Brazier in 2010, death was the thematic link throughout the conversation. That interview is exclusively published here in full, for the first time, and Steel offers his thoughts on one of our greatest rock icons now that he’s gone.
I GOT TO interview Graham Brazier three times. The first was in 1987 for RTR Countdown magazine when he was promoting Brazier, his second solo album, which spent a meagre week on the national top 50 chart. I remember almost nothing about that interview, and neither did Brazier when I met him again 23 years later. My second, more memorable encounter with Brazier was in 2010, for an article I was writing for Sunday magazine that I dubbed โBeautiful Losersโ: a piece that I hoped would lead to a book about the many great New Zealand singer-songwriters/musicians who have led troubled and financially unrewarding lives. The last time was a group chat with Brazier and the other members of Hello Sailor for Metro, around their 2012 comeback album.
I didnโt know him well, but Graham Brazier made you feel like you did, and the last two times I met him he was so candid about the dramas going on in his life, and was so personable with it, that I felt it would be easy to become woven into the complex social fabric of his world. I suspect that Brazierโs affability was greatly enhanced by his drinking.
I had been a fan of Hello Sailor as a teenager. I was never particularly taken by their drug mythology, which of course eclipsed their musical achievements because it was so news and gossip-worthy. What I loved was the fact that they made two of the best Kiwi-made albums of the โ70s โ albums packed full of great home grown songs, and albums that actually sounded good when New Zealand albums seldom did. (Kudos to Ian Morris, RIP). Even though their music style wasnโt really my thing, I loved Hello Sailor โ their braggadocio, the quality of the writing (and several complementary writers in one band!) and especially Brazierโs assured baritone voice. I know itโs a clichรฉ that Brazier was asked to join the post-Jim Morrison version of The Doors (see below for the amended version of that story), but Brazier did have a startlingly Morrison-like sense of drama in those days.
To me, Brazier was a deeply flawed artist and a deeply flawed human being. We all are. I donโt quite accept the way so many of the tributes following his death on September 4 have smoothed over those flaws. I was particularly disappointed with Paul Littleโs tribute in the Herald On Sunday. Iโve got huge respect and admiration for Little as a writer and gutsy independent publisher, but according to him, Brazier was a โgentle giant.โ Brazier was certainly capable of being a gentle man, but from my perspective, drugs and booze fucked him up, and inevitably, fucked up some of the people around him. In 2013, he was convicted of domestic assault, something glossed over by the glowing tributes and obituaries. I was approached by one of his alleged victims, his former partner, and her descriptions of his assault on her (and subsequent threats) were chilling. Iโm not suggesting that Brazier was an inherently violent person, but we all have the potential for violence within us, but anyone in the thrall to the bottle as much as Brazier was is going to risk having things get out of hand.
I found Brazier to be an amenable if knowingly provocative interviewee who could whip off a casual profundity with one sentence and a carefully formulated bland clichรฉ with the next. Unlike many artists, he showed at least some interest in those who were interviewing him, but at the same time, he had a healthy ego. Ultimately, I found him a pain to deal with. At the conclusion of my first interview, he rang me several times with additional thoughts and second thoughts, and threatened to set the heavies on me if I wrote a piece that he found offensive. He hated my piece, it turned out, but we made up when I interviewed him again in 2012. He found some reason to hate my Metro piece as well, theoretically because of a minor factual error. We ended up having a long phone conversation, however, and by the end of it he was complimenting me on a “great piece” and inviting me over to the bookshop to hang out. I was surprised when mutual friends told me that he had told them that I should watch out the next time we came across each other. Maybe he didnโt like reading in print that he was drunk on the job, although it was glaringly obvious, and during the 2010 interview below, I watched him down a succession of cans of Bourbon and Coke on a sunny Sunday afternoon out the back of his bookshop in Dominion Rd.
He shouldnโt have minded. I wasnโt judging him, just reporting. And after all, one of his favourite authors was Charles Bukowski, the great literary drunk, the guy who was never ever sober. Iโm sure that like Bukowski and many poets and authors and musicians before him, Brazier felt that the consumption of drugs and booze was a way to kick the pricks that control the real world.
“The longer youโre alive the more garbage you collect. Live fast die young and donโt collect so much garbage.”
Whatever. Graham Brazier didnโt like me much. I liked him, but itโs insulting to ignore his flaws. They just make him real. To me, he will always be one of our larger than life characters. And I know that his addictions probably scared away investors in his career but I still think, like other great New Zealand artist/musicians, he should have been more famous and a whole lot richer. And fuck, whatโs with the fact that hardly any of his solo albums, or those with Hello Sailor, are even in print? Is this how we thank our rock Gods?
Iโve been planning to publish the 2010 interview transcript below for quite some time. Most of it has never seen the light of day before. Itโs not a perfect interview, and heโs guzzling down the booze the whole time, but Brazierโs character does come through in it โ his generous qualities, a certain kind of egocentrism thatโs laced with self-deprecation. There are some great observations, and I felt it particularly appropriate for it to see the light of day so soon after his passing given the theme that runs right through the transcript: death.
Graham Brazier โ Iโve been going through quite a bit of shit with a lawyer.
Gary Steel โ When I first rang you the other day you were freaking out about that. Is that going to work out alright?
Graham โ Theyโll have to. Everything being in a trust. What sheโs done is sheโs tried to lock it down, sheโs one trustee and Iโm the other, but she canโt take what isnโt hers. Iโve got other lawyersโฆ probably have to go to court butโฆ
Gary โ So somebodyโs trying to take it?
Graham โ Well I sold my house in Grey Lynn, which was beautiful, I didnโt want to sell it, but I sold it to pay a small amount of money back to the lawyer, like 60 grand, and get some money to keep my mother in a rest home, sheโs 96 now. And what the lawyer did was took all the money from the sale. Take the 60 thousand dollars, that was okay. Took it all, and went to Bali. And Iโve been fighting to try and get it back ever since. Iโve got three other lawyers on it. Itโs driving me mad. Just absolutelyโฆ if you donโt deserve to, who can be robbed of half a million dollars.
Gary โ Itโs fucking intolerable that kind of stuff, eh?
Graham โ Well, itโs been going on since December last year. Unbelievable.
Gary โ Itโs more than a punch in the guts really, isnโt it?
Graham โ Hopefully itโll be okay. I donโt think sheโll survive the fact of having to go to court, because sheโs got noโฆ thereโs no realโฆ Trust law is very complex, and sheโs just trying to sort ofโฆ she thought she might be able to fluke us out of it.
Gary โ And old people tend to worry.
Graham โ No Mumโs fine, she doesnโt give a shit. She left it all to me. Good on her, God bless her.
Gary โ Sheโs pretty healthy?
Graham โ Yeah, sheโs good. Well not mobile enough to live hereโฆ They wonโt let me bring her home, because I looked after her for two years, but because of the stairs they wouldnโt let her stay here, which is incredible. Saying if she had a fall down the stairs Iโd be culpable.
Gary โ You must have strong genes in the family โ you can look forward to a long life yourself.
Graham โ I donโt want to. Itโll pass.
Gary โ It sounded like a bad scenario when I talked to you the other day butโฆ
Graham โ Things have moved on since then. The thing is she knows how to play the game and sheโs just playing it out. Itโs like some fucking amateur gunslinger trying to face Billy The Kid, facing the fastest gun in the west who has forgotten to load his gun. Thatโs me, I forgot to load my gun.
Gary โ On Friday night you played a gig in Howick. What was that all about?
Graham โ Oh just aโฆ I play with a bunch of Polynesian boys called Empty Room. I was just doing a guest spot. Theyโre very good, very good, theyโre all Tahitian, Samoanโฆ just a covers band really, but very good musicians. So I did that, then Iโm going to Taupo to play a private party on Wednesday. But Hello Sailorโs half way through an album that we were going to release this year but probably wonโt come out till next year. But you donโt release albums anymore. Itโs just a question of, youโve got the songs recorded but how do you get them, download themโฆ itโs all different. Thatโs why playing live has come back to such aโฆ Chrissie Hynde said to me, gave me some huge statistic about the Best Of The Pretenders. Volume one had sold so many million copies in America alone and Volume 2 had soldโฆ like a 50th of that worldwide, but we supported them in Auckland and they were going off to play in Dubai, Bulgariaโฆ if you want to get into that thing of constant traveling, I dunno.
Gary โ Do you still enjoy performing?
Graham โ Yeah I just donโt like getting there, thatโs all.
Gary โ You donโt like travelling.
Graham โ No. Well we went to Christchurch a couple of weeks ago and I did The Who support, Tom Jones, in the last six months or so.
Gary โ And you did that solo or with the band?
Graham โ No with the band, Hello Sailor.
Gary โ So the bandโs still together.
[Bukowski’s] actually writing as a philosopher, the visionary flood of alcohol. What heโs saying is 100 percent pure. Itโs not written for the intellectual, but it is highly intellectual.”
Graham โ Itโs still very much a working unit. Weโre quite picky about what work we do. Well Iโm not but the other guys are.
Gary โ And itโs broken up by other pressing stuff like legal disagreements and peopleโs busy lives. Things seem to get so much more complicated as you get older, donโt they?
Graham โ Yeah I wonder why that is?
Gary โ I guess you just push through the crap when youโre younger.
Graham โ Well when youโre youngerโฆ The longer you live the more shit you accumulate, you know, whether itโs freckles or bad debts. I dunno. The longer youโre alive the more garbage you collect. Live fast die young and donโt collect so much garbage. I firmly believe that everybody should, if theyโre in agreeance [sic] with it, at the age of 75 should just roll over andโฆ people should only be able to legally live until theyโre 75. Well, in the 14th century people only lived to be 30 or 40. There should be a statute on how long people can live, and I am definitelyโฆ I want my mother to live forever, but Iโm definitely pro euthanasia, without a doubt, definitely, because the most expendable commodity we have on earth is human beings.
Gary โ You donโt think as you get older you should accumulate wisdom?
Graham โ Iโm being wise when I say that voluntary euthanasia andโฆ I mean if people are still completely and absolutely mobile and have all their faculties and theyโre 100, sure thatโs going to happen lots, people living to be a hundred. I mean, people are going to be older and older and older with every decade, and the middle group arenโt there. Thereโs going to be basically just babies, or the middle group say 30s, like 20s to 30s to 40s wonโt be there, and a whole lot of people that are basically into senility. But animals shouldnโt be put down. Dogs should not be put down.
Gary โ Have you got a dog?
Graham โ I did have. Iโm still getting over her being euthanised, because some rotten taxi driver ran over her. No, Iโm actually just talking a lot of crap, itโs just how Iโm feeling today. I mean, societyโs not equipped to look after the elderly properly. If society was equipped to look after the old people properlyโฆ and children. How come thereโs so many fucking children in this country get killed before they reach the age of four or five? By negligible parents. So both ends of the spectrum need serious investigation in my mind. But I do believe that if somebody is lying in a bed with their family standing around coming in day after day watching them like leak away with some terminal illness, they should be able to sign a piece of paper and go โgoodnight nurseโ.
Gary โ Have you read Peter Singerโs stuff about that?
Graham โ No.
Gary โ Heโs an Australian ethicist.
Graham โ Iโm very choosy now about what I read, but Iโm sure Charles Bukowskiโs got a lot to say about it.
Gary โ I heard that you were a bit of a Bukowski fan.
Graham โ Mm.
“You should have the luxury, when your time has come, of saying yes, Iโve had enough, Iโd like to go now.”
Gary โ Is that because you relate to him, or to how he writes?
Graham โ I love his writing. Itโs so pure, and nonpolysyllabic, and itโs not written like โIโm an intellectual, look at how clever I amโ. I read some peopleโs blog sites and I almost vomit. Because he went straight from the street, his poetryโs pure, completely pure. Heโs like Francis Thompson. One of the greatest English poets, who was found in the gutter by a priest with all these scraps of paper, with all these wonderful poems. Shane McGowan stole a line from him: โI fled him, down the nights and down the days; I fled him , down the arches of the years.โ Bukowskiโs like that. And this priest took him to a monastery, cleaned him up, and he became one of the most widely read poets in England of that century. And Bukowskiโs like that: some guy believed in him, took a punt on him, and heโs one of the most widely published American poets of his time.
Gary โ I love the fact that he worked for the Post Office for all those years.
Graham โ He only wrote three novels. Iโve got a complete collection of his books butโฆ
Gary โ I might be wrong but I seem to remember that back in the โ70s his books were just small editions.
Graham โ I imported them. I used to import them from Black Sparrow Press, in Santa Rosa.
Gary โ I just remember these slim books that almost looked like they were hand made.
Graham โ If you see a whole set, theyโve got the most beautiful binding, theyโre all pastel, and theyโre all recycled paper, and theyโre made to be collected, theyโre not made to be handled. But Iโve got some English versions too, which are done through Virgin Publishing, and theyโre just like normal paperbacks, but Black Sparrow Press versions of Bukowski are actually not meant to be handled with grubby fingers, because they have pastel covers, very delicate, and itโs imperative to keep them in pristine condition, not some book that you go โhere, read thisโ. Itโs โhere, read this but put on these latex gloves.โ
Gary โ Obviously you enjoy the form of Bukowskiโs poetry, which is very direct and simple, not necessarily the ideas but the form. The way he boils things down in a very simpleโฆ
Graham โ Itโs sort of blue collar. Itโs blue collar experience, but written in a very, very โ without really knowing just how from almost a voyeuristic position heโs actually writing as a philosopher, the visionary flood of alcohol. [Note: Leonard Cohen line].Heโs writing as a philosopher. Through a blue collar perspective, but to get really analytical about Bukowskiโs poetry, what heโs saying is 100 percent pure, and he doesnโt pull any punches, and itโs not written for the intellectual, but it is highly intellectual.
Gary โ Itโs that sort of human authenticity that you like about it, that thereโs no bullshit there, a guy whoโs insisting on living a real experience.
Graham โ Bukowski could really write about anything. Actually you should probably not put that shit about me being pro euthanasia because it might get me into some terrible trouble, but I do believe that people should have a choice. I donโt mind being quoted on this. I do believe that people should have the choice if theyโre sick, or if they suffer daily from manic depression and theyโve actually had enough. If we are the only animals on the planet that have the ability to think, which everybody from Einstein to Isaac Asimov has said. Weโre the only animalsโฆ Richard Attenborough, whatever. Weโre the only animals on the planet that have the ability to think. And I donโt believe that, I believe that dogs have the ability to think. In a big way.
“Iโd give my left testicle to see Townes Van Zandt now. I canโt, heโs dead.”
Gary โ We reason, donโt we?
Graham โ Reason. Iโve had enough, should be able to sign a piece of paper if weโre right minded, weโve still got our faculties, Iโve had enough, and should be able toโฆ Well itโs happening in Sweden, itโs happening in other countries of the world. People talk about human rights, you donโt have the luxury of being inducted into this world, saying yes, I want to be born, but you should have the luxury, when your time has come, of saying yes, Iโve had enough, Iโd like to go now. At one end of it. If you go into a movie theatre youโre in there right, youโve got the opportunity to walk out whenever you want. Life should be like that. Itโs not a bad one, is it?
Gary โ Not bad. I used to say Iโd never sit down and watch a film and walk out on it, but I have to admit Iโve done it a few times. Especially since I moved to Helensville with the long drive home.
Graham โ Itโs a long way out and thereโs only one road in, I know from playing the pub there. I played a bar up there quite a lot.
Gary โ How are you feeling about life and career and all that stuff? Are things going swimmingly?
Graham โ [long pause] Umโฆ Yeah I, Iโฆ I guess I am. My favourite English poet had a book called The Toad [Toads, by Philip Larkin], why I can never remember his name I donโt know. He wrote, โThey fuck you up your Mum and Dad, they donโt mean to but they do/ They fill you with all the faults they had/And add some extra just for you.โ He was the only poet to have turned down the poet laureate, he was offered by John Betjeman, and he turned it down. And for that I really think heโsโฆ I tend to agree with a lot of hisโฆ You can ask anybody at any given time are they happy with life, and depending on whatโs happened to them in the last week, theyโll say โyeah lifeโs fantasticโ or โlifeโs a load of shitโ, so itโs transitory, it never stays the same, and thereโs no amount of money and no amount of poverty and no amount of sex and no amount of drugs or religion, that will actually make you truly happy. Happiness is fleeting. Happiness is what happened to you yesterday and youโre still getting over. But thank God weโve got tomorrow, maybe, maybe, to look forward toโฆ thatโs why I think people should have the right if theyโve had enough to go. I give up doc.
Gary โ So youโre a good old existentialist at heart.
Graham โ Oh definitely, definitely. But I love playing music, I love playing and knowing at the end, people coming up saying I really enjoyed myself. That to me is a small reward. Musicโs never been to me aboutโฆ a monetary thing and it probably never will be if you put yourself in this country. But then Iโve played in America and other places andโฆ what I do thinkโs cool is the amount of young bands now that areโฆ When we first shipped out and went straight from New Zealand to America we were one of the only bands apart from the Maori show bands. They are owed a huge gift by all following New Zealand musicians, because they trod a path there, you know the Maori Hi-Fives, the bands that went to Thailand, the bands that went to Las Vegas. Kings Cross, and there were dozens of them. Those guys, and they were very professional, very good players. But I like the way that young bands nowโฆ I donโt know whether air travelโs cheaper or whether they have better management, but all the bands now, itโs nothing for them to go and travel through Europe. I can guarantee that they donโt come back with very much money but the fact that they do it is very good. But saying that is no different than the bands that come from Canada and come down here. Like I was amazed to find out that Towns Van Zandt came down here three times in the โ80s. Iโd give my left testicle to see Townes Van Zandt now. I canโt, heโs dead.
Gary โ I guess those guys were on a touring circuit thatโฆ
Graham โ And he could do it by himself, he didnโt needโฆ
Gary โ When you guys packed up and went to America it wasโฆ
Graham โ Huge. It was a bigโฆ bring the family, as John Hiatt said.
Gary โ You were really the first NZ band to do that.
Graham โ Well apart from the show bands, yeah.
“Happiness is fleeting. Happiness is what happened to you yesterday. But thank God weโve got tomorrow, maybe, maybe, to look forward toโฆ”
Gary โ Why didnโt you join the Doors?
Graham โ Oh it was only a shortโฆ only to do a set of collegiate gigs. When American Prayer was released, they had a lot of old home footage of Jim staggering around and doing crazy stuff on Santa Monica beach and Venice, and reading his poetry, and the first half of the show was to be that, and the poems read from American Prayer even though Jim wasnโt there, with ambient music from the rest of the band, and then the second half was to be the hits, and thatโs what they wanted me to do, to sing โLight My Fireโ and โPeople Are Strangeโ, blah blah blah. It was something like 18 to 23 collegiate gigs round California, San Francisco, down to Southern California. But I would have left the other guys without any work, so I didnโt desert the sinking ship, so to speak. Very bad analogies. Probably loyalties. I had this socialistic stamp of loyalty in my genealogy from my socialist father.
Gary โ The one time I saw Hello Sailor and I think you played the St James theatre or somewhere like that. I was only 18 or something at the time. I couldnโt get over โ for every one guy there were probably 50 girls, young girls. It had that sense of almost teen phenomenon about it at that stage.
Graham โ Damn, see the problem that lights cause, I didnโt see any of that. Light shining in my eyes, I didnโt see any of that.
Gary โ Come on, I heard about the groupies.
Graham โ Iโll have to track down that light man and give him a jolly good piece of whatโs left of my mind.
Gary โ Itโs interesting to think of the band in the way that John Dix describes the group as being slightly more mature than some of the bands that were around at the time.
Graham โ We really are more mature than some of the bands that are around now. Another reason for the album not coming out this year is that next year is our 35th anniversary.
Gary โ Oh right!
Graham โ But havenโt you guys been broken up for years? Everybody thinks that because we donโt go out and do national tours, but we do spot play at events that are kept quite, not secret but a little more clandestine thanโฆ
Gary โ Itโs not corporatised in the way that youโd get with like, Tim Fin going on a winery tour with Bic Runga and Dave Dobbyn.
Graham โ No not like that. We just go with Tom Jones.
Gary โ Those guys, Tim Finn and whatnot, are New Zealand rock royalty, and itโs quite clear to anyone whoโs into NZ rock that you belong in thereโฆ
Graham โ Oh what a lovely thing to say, thank you man, Gary isnโt it? Thank you, that is really kind, thatโs one of the nicest thingsโฆ itโs been quite a while.
“Iโve actually played 52 funerals and never charged a cent for any of them, and theyโre for friends, parents and friends who have passed away.”
Gary โ The question is why arenโt you riding the gravy train like those guys?
Graham โ Umโฆ I had quite a few offers to play in Australia, but because of my Mum, I didnโt want to be too far, sheโs just up the road you know. So I donโt want to be too far away from her andโฆ But if thereโs people still playing at 70 like Leonard Cohen, not that Iโm putting myself in the same category as them butโฆ Leonard Cohen and Tom Jones and people like that. Thereโs lots of time. I think thatโs one of the best things thatโs happened in the last two decades, is actually respect for, even though Iโm saying that people should roll up their sleeve and die happily when theyโre at a certain ageโฆ I think the respect for older musicians for longevity, rather than being just an overnight sensation, a pop phenomenon, the journeymen in the music industry. The public have a lot more respect for them than they ever would have 20 years ago. โOh those old buggers!โ โ that sort of attitudeโs dying. Which is quite cool.
Gary โ Also when you guys were big the punk rock thing came along and that was an era of people being really disrespectful.
Graham โ Yeah well that came with the territory. I went and saw the Sex Pistols when John Lydon had a gut five times fatter than mine and was balding and I thought โokayโ, and he was probably the same age as me and hold on, you know.
Gary โ It all comes out in the wash later on, doesnโt it?
Graham โ As my mother said โ sheโs a very wise woman. Age is not necessarily a number, but a temper of the will. Itโs a lovely expression. When I say that Iโm pro euthanasia, only for people that are really sick, and theyโre notโฆ The only thing they can actually do is make the nuclear members of their family cry andโฆ what are you going to do? When it gets to that point itโs horrible for everybody. Iโm not really saying that everyone over a certain age should beโฆ thatโs what Johnny Rotten said, didnโt he? And heโs still doing shows probably as we speak. The only one who lived that legacy was Sid Vicious and I think he was used as a tool.
Gary โ I read recently that best mates, Johnny Rotten and Keith Emerson from Emerson Lake & Palmer!
Graham โ Thatโs a very weird combo, yeah. One of my dear friends is Paul Little, the author. I have friends in all sorts of strange quarters. Wendyl and I are dear friends too. Paul and Iโฆ lovely man. Youโd go a long way to meet a nicer guy actually. Lovely man.
Gary โ Most of us writers are cunts, but there are a few nice ones.
Graham โ [laughs]. I was reviewing New Zealand poetry for Canvas magazine for 18 months so I must be a cunt too. Ha-ha-ha. Iโll join the club.
“I went and saw the Sex Pistols when John Lydon had a gut five times fatter than mine and was balding.”
Gary โ I re-read a story that John [Dix] wrote about you for The Listener in 2004.
Graham โ Oh John Dick. Fucking cunt [under his breath]. Canโt write. The only thing that he could writeโฆ If you re-read that Listener article, as I did years ago, all he talks about is how drunk he got and my dog. I loved him talking about my dog, that was beautiful, but…
Gary โ There was a nice bit where he said he was mates with both of you but he preferred your Mum.
Graham โ Well, so do I. [laughs] Touchรฉ to that.
Gary โ One of the things he said was that you were worried that youโd given up your old habits and replaced them with cigarettes and alcohol.
Graham โ No, what makes you think that?
Gary โ The whole thing about, getting back to respect and where your place is in New Zealand rock and roll historyโฆ Do you think youโve had the kudos you deserve? I suppose itโs a difficult question to answer, because no matter what you say itโll sound wrong.
Graham โ Yeah, I donโt really think about that. Iโd like to think that the majority of what Iโve written, lyrically anyway, is honest. And I seem to have this huge, wherever I go, this huge ethnic population come up to me and say โhey you wrote that song โBilly Boyโ, I love that song, every time I hear itโฆโ And thatโs a great compliment, even though they get the name wrong, but you know what I mean. But I seem to have struck a chord there which is good, probably along with Tim Finnโs โParihakaโ. Iโve known Tim for a long time, Brian/Tim, known him for a long time. We just did some demos at Neilโs studio, and I never knew Neil Finn, at all, but one of his runners told me that after Paul Hester passed away with his two dogs watching, Neil brought the dogs back to New Zealand, and one of them passed away while it was in quarantine, and the other oneโs happily living away upstairs, and when I heard that I went up to him and said โI donโt know you, and thereโs no way we should even know each other, but what you did for those dogsโ, and after that there was just this click of friendship. Itโs funny sometimes what it takes toโฆ not ingratiate yourself with someone but to give you something in common. Because I thought what a guy, what an amazing thing to do, what a truly beautiful thing to do. And even when I think about it now it brings me to tears, itโs such an amazing thing to do. Thatโs true friendship, itโs really cool. [Graham is tearing up at this point]. Like Godfather stuff, you know, what a Godfather is truly meant to do. If you become a Godfather and the father dies, you should take over care of those children. Weโre replacing humans for dogs here but I went up to him and after that we just clicked, and it broke down years of not knowing the guy. All of a sudden we were like chums, and that was really nice, totally different opinion of the man, in all ways, than I did before. And my dog having recently died it really hit a nerve. [Voice is shaking]. And also Harry Hambolini [Michael โHarryโ Harallambi], The Exponents drummer, who I never really knew, he read about it in the paper, and he rang up and we talked about it for two hours on the phone. โI understand if anything happened to our dogs Iโd just die, Iโd just die. Are you okay? Is there anything I can do?โ And I thought โwow!โ
“Jazz players probably sit round and talk about semiquavers and scales and the key of F flat and things like that, but songwriters do tend to have favourite poems.”
Gary โ I guess itโs the purity of love you have for animals.
Graham โ It is. Itโs unconditional. Itโs totally unconditional. I suppose itโs the same for children. But those two people. A good philosopher would have something to say about that, and Iโm not a philosopher, but it was really cool, especially Harry Hambolini, whoโs a real tough guy. I believe heโs Albanian. He once had to go to court for having taken out a whole rugby team single-handedly. They called someone in the band a poofter and he went out and knocked them all over in the carpark. Or so the story goes. But he was just so genuine, and Harry and I just clicked. We spoke for a good hour, hour-and-a-half. I canโt wait until I can see the guy, thank him for that.
Gary โ Of all the Kiwi rock bands, outside of the ones youโre associated with, which do you feel the closest connections with?
Graham โ Well, Marc Hunterโฆ When Hello Sailor had itโs only true hiatus after Sweetwaters in 1981, I went back and lived in Australia for four years, and wrote a couple of songs for Marc Hunter, one of which is on his Fiji Bitter album, and Paul Hewson spent the last two weeks of his life staying with my mother and I, so those guys I have a big emotional connectionโฆ and musical. Marc was one of the great singers, and Paul was one of the great melodists/pianists/songwriters. A little neglected I think, a little overlooked, here, maybe not in Australia. I have so many friends in the music industry. Iโm very good friends with Bob Orr the poet, I get a lot of poets coming into the shop. As my mother did, so itโs just a continuationโฆ the cycle continues, you know? Quite often Iโd rather talk to a writer or a poet than I would a musician.
Gary โ I guess musicians who have a genuine interest in literature are not that thick on the ground.
Graham โ Well, most people think โheโs in a rock band he must be thickโ, but itโs not reallyโฆ thereโs a lot of people that will drop names like urban confetti of authors and philosophers like Jung and Nietzsche, but lyricists, songwriters, somewhere along the line it crosses over into poetry, good lyrics crossover into poetry. Modern poetry, urban poetry, I donโt know what you would call it, but there is a definite link. Whereas jazz players probably sit round and talk about semiquavers and scales and the key of F flat and things like that, but songwriters do tend to have favourite poems.
Gary โ I should let you go soon.
Graham โ No-no, look Iโm cool bro, Iโm cool. God knows I held you up, but yesterday I was in no condition.
Gary โ No I understand, Iโm feeling dead in the head today, for no reason in particular. Probably deadline blues.
“I can tell by my handwriting when Iโm excited about a line. A font canโt tell you when you were excited, can it?”
Graham โ I hope I havenโt held you up on your deadline. I know what itโs like because I did write for 18 months, reviewing poetry, and that was sort of likeโฆ Read the book, great, find my favourite poems, analyse them, take quotes, do comparisons. But then when it came to using the computer, that was the hard bit. Because Iโm a bit of a Luddite. I found it easier to give somebody 40 bucks to do it for me.
Gary โ I miss the days of using old fashioned typewriters.
Graham โ I still use a pen and paper. I never had the luxury of going to journalism school or Manhireโs courses or anything like that, but I can tell by my handwriting when Iโm excited about a line. Well that must mean something because my handwritingโs changed from quite slow and purposeful to almost unintelligible scribble, because my brainโs working faster than my hand can, so Iโll go back over that bit, the line and come back to it, and know that for some reason that meant something. Which you canโt really do that in typeface. A font canโt tell you when you were excited, can it?
Gary โ With the old-fashioned typewriters, if you pressed really hard on a letter it came up looking more bold, create an emphasis, but Iโm at my best when Iโve completely forgotten about a deadline, and just pretend Iโm doing it for myself. But if I can picture some editor waiting for it at 8am the next morning, then suddenly the whole thing starts to feel like Iโve got this leaden heart about it all.
Graham โ When I was doing the poetry reviews, I found deadlines quite good, because if I didnโt have a deadline, I kept putting it off and it never got done.
Gary โ Is Landfall still going?
Graham โ Yeah, Iโve got an almost complete collection going back to 1947. And a lot of people donโt know but Denis Glover and Charles Brasch, that was the start of Caxton Press, when they started Landfall. What was to, eventuallyโฆ they were the embryonic stages of Caxton Press. I donโt know if somebody bought them out butโฆ
Gary โ You just reminded me, I meant to ask you aboutโฆ youโve done a record of poetry?
Graham โ No, I did the Tuwhare album, Hone Tuwhareโs poem โFriendโ, and I contributed a cutlet to the Baxter thing. But they were years apart, different projectsโฆ I see Rob Tuwhare whoโs starting to write, and write really bloody well actually. Honeโs son, comes in here a lot. And theyโve actually adopted me into the Whanau because of that one song. They play it all the time on National Radio which is heartwarming. Especially because I lined up a whole lot of musicians to do that on the Monday, and then the session got cancelled to the Thursday, and then on Thursday somebodyโs uncle had died and someone else was out of town on tour and I ended up doing the whole thing by myself, playing the guitars andโฆ and it actually turned out very well. If you ever see the documentary of Tuwhareโsโฆ Itโs called The Return Home, he picks that song out, goes โI like this oneโ.
“If death is a new beginning, it shouldnโt be mourned for, it should be a celebration of whatโs gone before and whatโs to come. If there is anything, Iโm not sure, Iโll tell you when I get to the other side.”
Gary โ Do you still feel like the bad boy of New Zealand rock and roll?
Graham โ Well I keep getting accusedโฆ No, I donโt do anything wrong. Iโm sort of a bit like a Mother Teresa around here.
Gary โ The second part of your life is paying penance for the first part of it?
Graham โ It could be. You reap what you sow. Iโm not in any hurry to sort ofโฆ to do anything. I havenโt got this massive urge to do this next album, or do this project. I do want to do a book of poetry, because Iโve got hundreds of poems, I was writing poetry before I ever wrote a song. And Iโve got some good ideas for short stories and stuff like that, but thatโs something I can leave for a little while yet. Until I go bald, or grey, orโฆ You know what I mean.
Gary โ So many great writers donโt writeโฆ
Graham โ Until the later part of their life. Thatโs something thatโs actually, like the last part of the birthday cake that you keep in the freezer for that special occasion. I do write poetry all the time. Iโve got this thing that I do. I challenge people to give me three words, and from those three words I write them a poem. I do it for funerals andโฆ Having said what I said before about euthanasia and all that, Iโve actually played 52 funerals and never charged a cent for any of them, and theyโre for friends, parents and friends who have passed away. I donโt do it because itโs macabre or dealing in this Nosferatu, drink the last drop of blood from the coffin. I do it as a genuine sentiment. And thereโs a lot of people around that will say โOh Graham Brazier, he played at my uncleโs funeralโ. And I always moan about it, not another, oh Godโฆ and then afterwards, after Iโve done it, I get a feeling of sort of worth, not financial worth, butโฆ it makes me feel a little bit, not holy, Iโve done something, Iโve put something back, Iโve helped somebody, Iโve done something for a familyโฆ And theyโre hard, theyโre really hard, because people are just waiting to burst into tears, and if you run with that, you feel like if they start youโll go with them and the whole thing will just turn into a weeping session, you know. Really hard to steel yourself and get through that song. A friend of mine that was one of the heads of Amnesty International in the human rights commission, who died in Zimbabwe of a heart attack, only 60, I played at his funeral, with Don McGlashan. We didnโt play together, butโฆ Don and I both knew this guy through human rights, and that was incredible, it was one of the best, I canโt really call it a show, but there were Samoan choirs, there were African drummers, there were Hindi bell dancersโฆ every nationality, this guy had touched so many people, and when it came my turn to play I thought how do I watch that? But just sitting and watching that, this guy had done so much for so many people. And he was Islamic. Well he was Palestinian, Australian, had a business along the road and had known my mother forever, and theyโd become very good friends. And that was just incredible, Iโm sure that Don would say the same thing. The people that were there, the peopleโฆ as they were coming in, it was like a United Nations meeting. Wow.
Gary โ I suppose itโs like that New Orleans thing where itโs more like a party.
Graham โ Yeah, a celebration. Lifeโฆ you shouldnโt have to mourn somebodyโs passing, because theyโve had their life, you should celebrate what has gone before, which is their life. If death is a new beginning, it shouldnโt be mourned for, it shouldnโt start on this mournful note, it should be a celebration of whatโs gone before and whatโs to come. If there is anything, Iโm not sure, Iโll tell you when I get to the other side.
ย
After I turn off the tape recorder, Graham pulls up his sleeves to reveal the aging scars of numerous intravenous needles. โItโs a miracle I never got AIDSโ, he says.
ย + Graham Brazier’s funeral takes place at St Matthew-in-the City, this Thursday at 1pm. The service will be conducted by former Radio With Pictures host Karyn Hay.
+ There’s a Givealittle campaign here to pay for funeral costs and help with what has now become a tribute concert later this month, which takes place on the 18th at the Powerstation.
Enjoyed the interview and some of your comments and observations Gary. Not so much your bemoaning the lack of media coverage of legal BS at this sad time. For once, the media usually so salacious and tabloid/gossip orientated got it right. Let me assure you there are two sides (sometimes three) to every story, and this case is no exeption..I’ll leave it at that.
Hi Dan, thanks for your kind words. In regards to media coverage of “legal BS at this sad time”, I would make the following observation. It’s the media’s job to report, and although I agree with you that a tabloid approach has crept into news media, by ignoring the facts of Brazier’s convictions (and even in some cases the oft-celebrated drug use) the media simply wasn’t doing its job. Simple, really.
You got one thing right, he didn’t like you, and now i realise why.
Ha. Nice, Joanne. Nice. The last conversation I had with Graham, he was effusive about the quality of my writing. I don’t need to be liked.